Thread: Transmission Cooler

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I was thinking today how ironic it is that we just went over how it is better to have a black surface and then the cooler I have is chromed on the outside! Anyway on the inside of the air channels it looks like dull gray bare aluminum. at least it is not chromed in there. FMX, I too was impressed by the filter on C9's cooler but neither Auto Zone or Advanced Auto here had separate filter brackets, I will have to look further. That is a good idea for the filtering part and the added volume of fluid. Also the tip from C9 about the B&M pan for the trans with the air tubes is worth looking into; especially if the R700 is more sensitive to heat than the TH350. I had a bad experience with a Chrysler LeBaron several year ago when I was out near Lynchburg over 100 miles from home on an Interstate and suddenly the trans dropped down into second at 65 mph and would not shift out. I drove it into the nearest service station after driving about 15 miles on the shoulder of the Interstate at 45 mph and we drained out the fluid and put in new fluid. The fluid was close to boiling and we could not even touch the pan at first. After we put new fluid in it ran OK and I got home, but the next day on the way to a local store the trans totally quit so I was lucky to get home. So it is important to take care to cool the trans and avoid frying it.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I have that built C4 with automatic valve body going into my 66. It has a shift kit and 2300-2500 stall converter. Will just an inline cooler be ok? The guy is just putting a plain stock crappy looking pan on so not sure if I should upgrade later or not.

Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
I have that built C4 with automatic valve body going into my 66. It has a shift kit and 2300-2500 stall converter. Will just an inline cooler be ok? The guy is just putting a plain stock crappy looking pan on so not sure if I should upgrade later or not.

get a cooler that goes in front the raidiator. you need a cooler with your truck as your radiator has no provisions for trans lines ( being 3spd truck originally ), so it is technicly not in line, tho, some people do run them through a cooler then in the radiator when they have provisions for the lines.

Matt, I got a new 3 core bigger radiator remember? It has the two lines in the radiator. So I think the cooler goes either in front or behind the radiator.
So think this will be enough?

Don Shilady, I am gonna take some, maybe even a lot of heat for this, but I would like to give you my 2 cents. I realize it's your car and you should do it your way, but I think you should rethink your radiator. I just pulled out my Walker Catalog and they make a radiator Model 487-1 that fits 28-29 Ford, you can get it with or without A/C that has a trans cooler built in. I don't believe mounting the trans cooler out front as in your picture is the astetically (spelling?) correct or appealingway to go. Now this is just me, but if I saw your car with that style cooler out front I would ask myself what the hell ...? I have made many mistakes purchasing wrong parts on my Model A that cost a lot of money, but I believe if I'm going to do it, it should be done right. I'm not saying your way is wrong just not the best it could be.

Originally posted by blwn31
Don Shilady, I am gonna take some, maybe even a lot of heat for this, but I would like to give you my 2 cents. I realize it's your car and you should do it your way, but I think you should rethink your radiator. I just pulled out my Walker Catalog and they make a radiator Model 487-1 that fits 28-29 Ford, you can get it with or without A/C that has a trans cooler built in. I don't believe mounting the trans cooler out front as in your picture is the astetically (spelling?) correct or appealingway to go. Now this is just me, but if I saw your car with that style cooler out front I would ask myself what the hell ...? I have made many mistakes purchasing wrong parts on my Model A that cost a lot of money, but I believe if I'm going to do it, it should be done right. I'm not saying your way is wrong just not the best it could be.

Don may be able to use an in-radiator cooler and that's not a bad deal in the winter - course with his winters, will he be able to drive the roadster in the winter - but in summer it just adds to the radiators heat load.

Along with that, some cars lack room for fittings to adapt to the in-radiator cooler.
True in my case. (Buick fans sit low and left and there's not much room left.)

Far as aesthetics go, Don's cooler will be somewhat hidden behnd the license plate and in my opinion an interesting aspect of the car.
Hot rods are machines and having a particular thing set up differently than other hot rods makes for a car with a higher interest factor.

Everything doesn't have to be slicked down and hidden on a hot rod.
When it is, the car is less appealing and less interesting.
Hot rods were and are copies of race cars and race cars always had lots of interesting pieces on them.

Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
I have that built C4 with automatic valve body going into my 66. It has a shift kit and 2300-2500 stall converter. Will just an inline cooler be ok? The guy is just putting a plain stock crappy looking pan on so not sure if I should upgrade later or not.

If your cooler is big enough, it'll work fine on it's own.

If you plumb the radiator trans cooler into the system, the external cooler is downstream from the radiator so that maximum oil cooling is accomplished before the oil hits the trans again.

The cooler goes in front of the radiator so that it's in an area of flowing, cool air.
Behind the radiator is dumping hot radiator air onto it, so you end up behind the curve right off the bat.

You may be able to mount the external cooler off to the side.
Mount it on the sheet metal flat area so that oncoming air can hit it fairly directly . . . important part is, cut the sheet metal away behind the cooler so that air can flow through.
Sounds like a dumb comment, but I've seen trans coolers bolted to radiator panels and there was absolutely no airflow through the cooler.

Good choice on the stall speed too.
People forget that when they slip they generate heat.
If you run a 3000 rpm stall converter and highway speeds have the engine running 2600 rpm or so, you're generating quite a bit of heat due to the converter never does lock up.

That thing with the oil filter idea is awsome! How's that work out? Can you do BOTH with the intil cooler AND that?

Not completely sure what you're asking here.
The added filter and cooler in series on my car works well.

As far as the trans pan goes, if you're on a budget run the stock one and get a deep one later.

As mentioned before, get a trans temp gauge and monitor it.
I see lots of cars with questionable cooling setups and the owners always tell me the trans never gets hot.
Almost always they do not have a trans temp gauge so I wonder how they know?

Don, the trans pan with cooling tubes is a Derale.
They have a site, just Google them. Photo below.

B&M, to my knowledge makes only a stamped 1" deeper trans pan and a cast aluminum 1" deeper pan.

Jim Davis . . pretty sure I have the name right . . . owner of B&M had a very nice 32 roadster with one of his cast aluminum pans on it.
The car was pretty low, but no moreso than many roadsters seen today.
He was in a gas station and caught the pan on one of the higher than grade level station tank fillers you see on the concrete pads.
Broke heck out of the pan and dumped trans oil all over.

My opinion on this mishap is that a stamped pan would probably have bent and not leaked.
Even if it did pop a leak it probably would have been minor and repairable in most any town small or large.

Don, Speedway has remote mount oil filter brackets.

Several styles.
The two on the right side of the page are what I'm using now.

There is a single filter remote oil filter bracket that has the oil lines coming in from the sides (filter vertical).
I think I have one, but I'm not sure who makes it.

Go here:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Search...rchTitleDescr=

Don, I have a tightly packed 29 (350/330) with a th350 and trans cooling was also a problem for me. I decided after looking at all options to go with a cooler that could be mounted anywhere even out of the air stream. I selected a Derale fan mounted remote cooler. I mounted the cooler under the seat on the drivers side. The unit is equipped with a In-line fan Thermosta and will maintain the fluid at 180 degrees.

I will post a picture in my gallery....

jc

http://www.derale.com/fanmountedoilcoolers.shtml

If you run a 3000 rpm stall converter and highway speeds have the engine running 2600 rpm or so, you're generating quite a bit of heat due to the converter never does lock up.

Random thought . . . Don has a 700R4, which can be made to lock up at any time with the right switch.

Originally posted by Henry Rifle
Random thought . . . Don has a 700R4, which can be made to lock up at any time with the right switch.

True . . . my fault for getting into answering two questions in the same post and not making myself clear.

have that built C4 with automatic valve body going into my 66. It has a shift kit and 2300-2500 stall converter.

Quoting FMX Hellraiser.

C9x, thanks a lot for all the help! I am going to stick with the stock pan for now and upgrade when I can. The guy at the shop said for me it's not really needed too bad and that I will be good with the stock. How much are the temp gauges for the tranny? I want to buy a fairly good one and accurate because I may change ALL my gauges out since all but the oil pressure are broke. I am giving a drum lesson this comming week for 2 hours so I will have 50 bucks by next week. I am guessing that will be just enough for a fairly good accurate gauge?

Thanks again! I am learning a lot from this thread too.

blwn31, I know what you mean, it will look different for sure and the body already looks like "plastic" similar to the look Corvettes have had for many years. Esthetically (? I am better with numbers than at spelling) I don't think that would be any worse than some extreme cases I have seen of '27 and '29 roadsters with tubbed "pro-stock" rear tires on a narrowed 9" rear; that looks really strange to me on the street, although logical at the track. Then again there have been a few very long dragster bodies set up to run on the street. My problem has been that I am not good at returning stuff, although I recently returned a fuel cell to Summit that was just too high/thick for my space, and I have had the radiator in a box for almost 6 months so I don't know whether I could send it back. I note my wife has taken chairs, rugs and other large items back on a whim many times. Another problem is that I went into this project thinking I could take a mid-price range approach and chose the simpler radiator on that basis. Now I have learned that you just have to buy or make what "works" and sometimes that can be an expensive item, the R700 is a case in point. No doubt a lot of the cars built on this Forum are top quality and of course there is a general "look" agreed upon, but I am not sure I will reach that level and at this point I want what works to get the car running.
Still I will give it some more thought. Maybe a long stretch of copper tubing down and back along the right side of the frame would be enough if C9 only needs a spreader bar tube, but the front location seems to be important.


C9, thanks for the reference on the ventilated pan. I need to check the clearence behind the engine pan. If the trans pan is no lower than the engine pan I will go with that or the B&M higher volume pan, but thanks to this thread I realize that the R700 may need some TLC in the heat cooling dept.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally posted by DennyW
Hi Don, I was just sitting here thinking about the different transmissions, and realized that in some of the older gm transmissions, we used to use ford fluid instead of dextron, to give them a better bite, and less chance of slipage. Maybe some of the up to date fellows will chime in on this ?

Denny, not sure how up-to-date I am, but I run Ford trans fluid in my T-400.
42,000 miles, no probs so far.
Recommended by a trans shop owing friend who did the trans for me.
I believe he put in organic clutches and that's why.
Organic may be the wrong word, but I'm pretty sure it's similar to the clutch material Ford uses.

One small recommendation, if you install a shift kit go for the mildest one.
Especially if the trans is behind a somewhat torquey engine.
I had the lightest shift kit installed and it's just right in my 2400# roadster.

I didn't want the thing popping off 2nd gear rubber in normal traffic driving.

Shift manually though and the tires hit 2nd very hard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Don, not sure where the Derale pan will sit height-wise behind your engine, but in my 32 the bottom of the Derale trans pan is even with the bottom of the stock exterior oil pan.

Ground clearance with the engine pan is 6".

Not as low as it seems, when the car was first built the pan was 7" off the ground.
I worried about that and measured the Pinto I was driving at the time.
The Pinto had 6" clearance.
I'd never hit anything with the Pinto pan and the 32 has never dragged anything.
Speed bumps and angled driveways are no problem.

Lowest point on the car are the collectors at 5 1/2" off the ground.